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U: Although they, the parents were so religious, and the grandparents were so religious, they felt like German citizens.
B: Yes.
U: That was their, their fatherland, and thus they were German citizens with Jewish faith.
B: Yes.
U: But I am completely different again today, because of what happened.
B: Yes.
U: Me, I am an Israeli now. I’m proud that I’m Jewish. I’m proud that I’m Israeli. And eh, I know that the young generation, like you and people I see in the street, they, they’re not guilty of it, they can’t be guilty of it either. They’re not guilty of what happened. But, but I can never forget what people ...
B: Yes.
U: ... did to me personally, what they did to my parents, the family, my whole family, I can never forget that. And eh, and eh, that’s why I feel even stronger as an Israeli, as a Jew; a Jewish Israeli. And the greatest revenge I have, if I can put it like that, is not, God forbid, to do something to someone because they did it to me, but when I see that I have a Jewish state... So, the Nazis, Hitler and the Nazis wanted to ... us. How did he express himself anyway, the, the, the Hitler? Eradicate.
B: (at the same time) era(dicate -?).
U: Eradicate.
B: Yes.
U: So, the Jewish people, the people still exist. We have a state. I have children, I look at the children, I see the children, and I see the grandchildren. That’s the greatest revenge I have. Then I know that the Jewish people are still alive. And will still st-… alive. Because he thought that there would no longer be a Jewish people.
B: Yes. Mr. Uzai, is this your first time back in Germany?
U: Yes. Yes.
B: And it certainly has been very difficult ...
U: Very difficult, yes.
B: ... for you. You probably spent a long time ...
U: Yes, yes.
B: ... thinking about it ...
U: Yes, I thought about it for a long time.
B: ... whether you should go at all.
U: But still and despite it all, once I want to see the graves of my grandparents, who are buried here in Hamburg. And I wanted to see where I lived, where we were born, where we prayed. The first thing, as soon as we arrived here, the first day I went with m-, my wife and we went to the Grindel. I showed her the school, the Talmud Thora School. Where I, my brother and my father and my uncles, where they all went to school, where my grandfather was a teacher for 50 years. And then I showed her the, the, the, where the Bornplatz, where the synagogue was located. And then in Rutschbahn anyway, where the old Neue Klaus [synagogue] still stands, and we couldn’t go in, there’s a factory or something, but it’s locked, locked. And from there I, showed her Brahmsallee 16 and Parkallee 20, where I was born. And my parents, my grandparents used to reside on Hansastrasse. Then we went to Isestrasse, where my grandmother and grandparents lived, and my uncle lived there at Eppendorfer Baum 19. And I wanted to see that again.
B: Yes.
U: The other thing, I’m not saying it doesn’t interest me, but that, for that I wouldn’t have come to Hamburg.
B: Yes. Mr. Uzai, you apparently didn’t think about coming to Hamburg before ...
U: Yes.
B: ... and the [illegible material] ...
U: I thought I would never, my feet would never step on German soil again.
B: Yes, I can understand that.
U: As we came in over, over German, how we came in over Germany, my wife said, but this is so beautiful. Then I said to her, “Yes, but the ground is … in Jewish blood ... eh,- ... How do you say it?
B: Marked ...
U: Yes.
B: ... or covered.
U: Yes, yes, yes.
B: Yes. ... Can you imagine, Mr. Uzai, why you were able to come now that you’re older?
U: Because I want to see once again, I just want to see once again the roots from where I came. Well, I don’t have any roots here. My roots were pulled out. I don’t have them on my own ... Just like they used to say here, like I used to say: My parents thought they were Jew-, they were good Germans and good Hamburg residents. Well, I don’t have any roots here, out they were ... But I’m interested in seeing where I came from again.
B: Yes.
U: And, as I told you, I want to see the, the, the, the eh, eh, the graves of my grandparents.
B: Oh, were you ...?
U: And maybe ...
B: Yes.
U: ... of an uncle who didn’t have any children, where, all of whom died. And I know one family, my father’s older sister, they lived in the Grindelhof, I think, and none of them came back. And he, and the uncle, he died in 1940, of course. I want to go there too, to the grave.
B: Yes.
U: Once.
B: Have you been to the Orthodox cemetery in ...
U: No, ...
B: ... Langenfelde?
U: ... Tomorrow , tomorrow I’ll go there.
B: Yes.
U: Tomorrow I’ll be there.
B: Yes.
U: I was there, like, when I was a child!
B: Yes.
U: But (briefly laughs a little bit) ... Tomorrow I’ll go there.
B: Yes. ... It’s probably very difficult for you to be here?
U: Yes.
B: Here in Hamburg.
U: Yes.
B: Do you regret that you came or do you think ...?
U: No, I don’t regret it. But if ...
B: Yes.
U: ... I walk down the street and I see pe-, older people, then, then, I say to my wife all the time, then I’m always very, although not everyone has to be, but, but I say to my wife, “He must have been a Nazi. Maybe he was a murderer. Maybe he took my parents to the station...”
B: Yes.
U: “... forced them, took them there.” When I see someone, someone older than me. -
B: Yes. Mmh. I can understand that. Mmh. Is it exhausting being here?
U: Yes.
B: Yes.
U: Mentally exhausting.
B: Yes.
U: Yes, yes.
B: I can believe it.
U: Mmh. I didn’t sleep the first night. And they took us, they showed us, I didn’t know, there’s a meadow next to the tr-, the Dammtor train station ...
B: Yes.
U: ... with a memorial, and they told us that the, they collected all the Jews there in, in 1941 in November, before they were sent to eastern Germany.
B: (That was a collection point. -?)
U: And they were then, at night they were in the big building on the right. And my parents were there. Because my parents were sent away in November.
B: Yes.
U: And sure, that’s very difficult for me. […] Skipped: Memory of school and children transport, dealing with the past
B: Yes. You’re flying back on Tuesday.
U: No, on Tuesday anyway, we’re flying on to Switzerland.
B: To Zurich.
U: To Zurich.
B: Yes.
U: We’ll stay there for a week. And then we’ll travel back home.
B: Yes. Maybe you want once again...
U: And the, we’re going on vacation there. And the lady in the agency, in the travel agency said: “Why are you going to Switzerland? It does cost-, you could stay in Germany, it would be cheaper.” And I told her that I didn’t want to go on vacation in Germany. That’s not a vacation for me.
B: Mhm. […]