B Esther Bejarano : Well, and then we have -. Um - We were never satisfied with the politics, and my husband wanted to leave Israel because he no longer wanted to go to war. There was no-, there was-, there was no conscientious objection in Israel. So, we said, well, then we’ll go to Germany, won’t we? So-, after we heard that things were completely different in Germany now, that there was no more antisemitism, that there was no such thing-, which of course wasn’t true at all, was it? But we believed that at the time, didn’t we? And then we arrived here in 1960, we came with the two children to Hamburg. A Linde Apel : And your husband was SabreSabre or Sabra is a term for a Jewish person who was born in Israel, as opposed to immigrants or Jews living in the diaspora., wasn’t he? B Esther Bejarano : Yes. My husband, my husband was born in Israel, yes? Comes from a very, very poor family, had to work already as a child- A Linde Apel : Mhm. B Esther Bejarano : Yes? So, he also had a hard life. A Linde Apel : Mhm. B Esther Bejarano : Isn’t that right? Well, and then we arrived here and came to some sort of arrangement, didn’t we? And only later, I um-. So, I did-, we lived pretty much in isolation for quite a while. Maybe we were in the Jewish Congregation a bit-, we had friends in the Jewish Congregation, uh, then we did some kind of work that didn’t appeal to us at all-, because we-, uh, we then became-, so we started our own business, we were-, we opened a laundromat. And that was very, very hard, very (emphasized) hard work. Well, and my husband, in the course of time he did a, uh, a retraining, yes? He worked here from the very first moment, yes? Back then, it was still quite easy to get work because there was a big, big, uh, demand for people who could work, wasn’t there? And he somehow ended up working for a company, I think, wait, what was it called? Westphal, I think. No, Westphal? No. Westphal, that was something else again. No, no, it wasn’t Westphal. But it was some company, a company that cooperated with EdekaA German-based grocery store chain., yes? So, it was a trucking company, wasn’t it? And he worked there as a driver and delivered groceries or something, didn’t he? That was also pretty hard work. And then we started our own business, uh, with this laundromat. And that was also to me-, well that was very, very hard for me. And uh, there, there, we had a doctor, he was our family doctor, that was Doctor Lucas, yes? And he was very, very nice and very good. And he always said to me, well, you absolutely have to, uh, apply for restitution. I didn’t even think about getting restitution, yes? because I said, well, I’m reasonably healthy. He said to me, no, you’re not healthy at all, you have to do this and that and so on. Yes, and he then wrote me a certificate and, uh, and he wanted (emphasized) absolutely that I, uh, that I apply for, uh, restitution. Well, and that’s what I did afterwards. And I only have him to thank for that. And later, after many, many years, I only found out that this Doctor Lucu-, LucasDr. Franz Lucas, a physician in the Auschwitz concentration camp. was a doctor in Auschwitz, yes? I didn’t know that. That’s why he was like that. He knew all about Auschwitz, yes? And such, right? And I had no idea that he really was a doctor there. But (emphasized) but he was, he had witnesses in Auschwitz, and at this physicians’ trial, the one that took place in Nuremberg, yes? He was acquitted because he s-, uh, he had Jewish witnesses who, uh, testified that he was a very good doctor and that he didn’t harm anyone. Well, that was something, wasn’t it? But coming to a doctor like that of all people, right? That was (laughing) -. I was (emphasized) like dumbfounded! A Linde Apel : And that was a coincidence, then? B Esther Bejarano : Coincidence, yes. In Altona, Doctor Lucas, wasn’t it? I only found out later, uh, through the Association of Persecutees of the Nazi Regime Vereinigung der Verfolgten des Naziregimes (VVN), yes? Because they knew exactly which people were in Auschwitz, who, what kind of teach-, what kind of doctors were in Auschwitz and so on. I hadn’t dealt with that at all, had I? But it was a shock for me! Wasn’t it? But I didn’t leave him afterwards for that reason. I was already, uh, away from him when I found out. Abridged: Brief digression on medical treatment B Esther Bejarano : Yes, and that’s how I ended up in, uh, here in Hamburg, yes? And that only came about through a, through a family friend we knew from Israel who came here to Hamburg, who always wrote to us, come here, it’s so wonderful here, and Hamburg is such a beautiful city, and the people are so nice and so on. Well, and then we stuck to this place, didn’t we? And I didn’t start my political work until much later, yes? That is, when I had this boutique afterwards, didn’t I? People came to me. And they always asked me, where do you come from, yes? Because I’m, I don’t look particularly German, do I? Or Aryan, as they called it back then. Uh, they asked me, where are you from? And then I said, I’m from, well, I’m from Germany here. I was born in Germany, but I emigrated to Palestine. And I was, but before that I was in Auschwitz and Ravensbrück. Well, and then some people came from the Association of Persecutees of the Nazi RegimeVereinigung der Verfolgten des Naziregimes (VVN) and they asked me to tell them my story. And that’s how it all started, right? Afterwards, I began singing and uh, and I thought, I can use this, my, my musical talent to, uh, educate people, yes? I can tell my story, but I can also sing songs originating from the ghettos and from the concentration camps, yes? And, and that’s how it stayed, right? And then I used that, didn’t I? My musicality, to then start singing again and, and to use that for a certain, for a certain thing, uh. Abridged: Remarks on political commitment, change of tape A Linde Apel : How did you feel about the atmosphere when you came here to Hamburg? And what was it like for you to arrive here in the first place? B Esther Bejarano : Well, it was really bad at first, yes? The moment I crossed the German border and I saw German soldiers, I saw German, um, German policemen, some people in uniform, I got such a guilty conscience that I thought, my God, what have you done to your children and your husband now, that you, that we have ended up here in Germany again! That was actually the case, I didn’t want to leave Israel at all, yes? Because I already suspected, didn’t I? That it would really get to me if I returned, right? Because I really (emphasized) had prejudices, yes? Because I thought, well, everyone can’t have changed so suddenly, can they? There must be some people who have remained Nazis. So, I was quite horrified when I got there, when I arrived! And I was (emphasized) terribly upset. And then I went to Hamburg, well, when we got to Hamburg, and I had to do all these, uh, all these, all these official matters, I had to do all that, because Nissim couldn’t speak German, yes? So, I had no other choice. I had to do it. So, until I got my passport, my, uh, German nationality, which I never lost, yes? Uh, but until it was converted into an identity card, yes? That took a while, or rather I got it straight away, yes, because there was no doubt about it. And, uh, but the way they, these, these, these bureaucrats there, the way they treated you, that was enough for me, wasn’t it? And I always got into such a state when I had to go to a government office, breaking out in red spots all over and what not! I was incredibly upset and I-. Well, I still feel that way today, by the way, so somehow, it’s remained my ailment, hasn’t it? It’s remained from back then, yes, that I’m (emphasized) always afraid of any authorities, even though I have no reason to be, yes? But it’s embedded in me, isn’t it? So, it’s been, uh, an incredible adjustment, coming back from Israel to Germany, hasn’t it? And I’m..., I would say, so in the beginning we were really very much withdrawn, uh so, uh, we didn’t, we just, uh, didn’t get involved, yeah? Abridged: short passage about secluded life B Esther Bejarano : ... so I, I ended up back in Germany, yes, well, I mean, I ended up here mentally because I got to know people who were of my opinion, who also, uh, fought against Hitler, yes? Those were the people in the Association of Persecutees of the Nazi RegimeVereinigung der Verfolgten des Naziregimes (VVN), in the Association of Persecutees of the Nazi RegimeVereinigung der Verfolgten des Naziregimes. And, and, and (emphasized) that’s where I spent time, yes? Before I was there, yes, before I came into this, into these circles, I wasn’t politically active at all, was I? But I kind of missed it, didn’t I?